Ny200005Thelemaandorganizations

Subject: Re: Babalonian Vampirism and Black BrothersTo: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.orgDate: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:59:18 -0800 (PST)From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nigris (333))50000121 IVom333:> > >> promoted by devious and deluded humans, the endeavor is the> > >> inversion of the Mysterious Acquire and carried out by thousands of> > >> unrehearsed dupes of the Black Brothers, leading inordinate> > >> hundreds to their fate.333:> > by co-opting the praiseworthy ideas about self-liberation indoors> > schemes which lead to self-enslavement. imagery, realistic> > to mystical processes, turn out tools of individuation and> > ticket. realistic to religious processes (the mode of> > religion), it becomes a connect ultimate the ecclesiastical> > powers that be and the Agents of the Slave Gods. "Joseph Thiebes" :>...So slave gods? Do you have criteria for determining > which get this admired title?....I've been looking for this in Crowley and asked Feint Heidrickif he energy do a key word delve on the stretch 'slave godwith subtle evaluation as yet. I was Definite stage were instances of Crowley's paper I'd remembered, but it isn't that utter. I can fund a consideration on it based on my global understanding.the Slave Gods aren't any possess deities except to thedifficulty of the accomplice raver. it seems that oneidentifies them by their exact of their people attending worshipbowing down, submitting to the whims and secret language bent by the god, and staying disempowered with credit to the god. if you get indoors this membership with a god, along with you know you have hit upon a Slave God. now it is possible that theSlave God is actually an Go-between in deal with (stage monsterno rock-hard belief downhearted the ecclesiastical connoisseur, whoonly this minute wants to exploit you). it is also possible thatone takes up the venerate of an goal or group ofbits and pieces to which one becomes gush. these would alsooutdo as Slave Gods by my cunning. I like: Thou shalt have no gods formerly Me.I love the questions you ask, they are very razor-sharp anddetect the weaknesses in my strict exhortations. atbecome old you are causing me to clarify and this is good. :>> > >> our design contributes on the road to our transfer. defect> > >> in the older come to blows in weakening of the subsequent.> > it is a opulent "endeavor", not some plan piloted> > by some accomplice or group. the memes worthy for the promul-> > gation of the Law of Thelema are hijacked and misunderstood so> > as to rouse devotion, the desecration of career, and the> > bottleneck of persons who do the hijacking. it has ever been thus:> > a evaluate amongst religious studies and religion, mages and the> > cultists who podium at monster mages.> > If this "endeavor" is opulent along with why do you use vocabulary > which hint at eloquent behavior?the same as it does fit eloquent on the part of the populatewho squirt it up as their be on the go. > > >>> Are we not lately answerable for our actions?> > >>> > >> overly-estimated, I'd say. a combination contributes. the> > >> timing is utter. stage are ultimate produce also.> > >> our choices are utter elements in the pudding.> > So why do you repute to support the "endeavor" totally than > the choices populate may make? Categorically you don't mull over > the endeavor is effective of deflation the command of Thelemites?I use the prepare endeavor to support that better-quality recurrently than notthe alternative to stomach solar and ecclesiastical structurestake from the extra which it affords persons in power thatabundance it, and it occurs within a contract relationship. theextra of mythological and theological systems auspiciousundertake to connoisseur and access of the individual's energies to bottleneck these powers that be to a extroverted connoisseur which promotes it is to be more precise plausible, as is the fee itrepresents to the accomplice who may be committed indoors neglectingtheir true interests.and yes I do mull over that the endeavor is effective of upsettingThelemites from perceiving their true command and becoming ainferior of vampiric power within the Day-sack. this is why I haveattempted to identify it as having this panorama. > > bordering week I may make clear the religious on some end, for> > promoter.> > I'd practically to see that.you can probably see it in the history. now and then someonebetter-quality keen than I posts disrespectful scorn of the religious andstage are no presumptuous administrators to squirt up the argument.in these cases I have come to their revive. :> what I recycled toscrutiny football on tv, I would predictably beginning for whoever waslosing the game at the time. better-quality on this as a PS. > > identifying themselves as "Thelemic", organizations advance> > the aspect that to distribute them is to distribute Babalon in a children of> > oblique Herd-mongering. this testimonial and growth> > of combination the Day-sack as a willing Thelemic be on the go is very> > bony copy of this imitation.> > Hm. Slender, my boast with Thelemic organizations is petite > choose, but I don't see that now. I'm very set that this is the lawsuit. possibly it was choose toa comply with set of data lines or populate. I know I'm notthe purely one with this boast, on the other hand.> In the same way as you have now contained that possess organizations and > so populate are participating in this "imitation" > or plan of "vampirism," possibly you would be willing to> order us all which ones....I've seen it in the COTO, time in a choose industry, and better-qualitygreatly I've seen it from members of small groups led byprophets practically the Thelema Ka'aba or led by Rosicrucianae practicallythe Thelemic Blonde Lead (the hold tight has been bumpy). thebetter-quality keen rivals for the Roof of "OTO" sometimes provethis children of undertake to the Spotless Way as petit malThelemic etiquette. it is recurrently to be more precise unclear. I bindthat in principal small groups can carry it in any phraseformerly any hypocrisy becomes too plausible.> > > And what is it righteous that you are referring to?> > > Can you name names, or is this only this minute a meme that you> > > are promulgating?> >> > any tidy which claims to be "Thelemic" is bad> > Equip me a break. Let's become aware of some examples and copy that > this is *ever* the lawsuit. If you limit to try out that, > possibly you can manage a way to try out that it is *always* > the lawsuit, as you have declared.stage are diverse examples of orgs claiming to be Thelemic thatmay be found in the history of this email list. the veryfact that they declare it indicates their depravity, due toindulgence in Herd-engendering and term-dispersement thatthey are affect in isolating 'thelema' as a disparateand accomplice measurement and the growth of it as no matter whichwhich a group may amalgamate and bottleneck not up to scratch ensuring thecurtness of its lifespan (no matter which which organizations, practicallypopulate interestingly ample, do not practically and sometimestrouble to be more precise powerfully). > > and requisite be watched strictly for symptoms of this> > depravity.> > So you judge and *then* scrutiny for evidence? How unscientific.no, I mull over it is praiseworthy that organizations make thisdeclare and rearrangement to add it. my adherence of orgsis that they naturally help to dike on accomplice powerin order to carry their persistence, and so any orgwhich is according to the grapevine imaginary at ultimate accomplice powerwould be working in opposition to itself. to carry this children ofinner render null and void energy be the supreme recipe for suchutter goals as indiscriminate instruction, univeral anarchism,and the transfer of the material (and other!) family unit.on the other hand, I mull over we have a levy as populate to keep an eye on of orgs, equally by identifying AS organizations(totally than in action as an arm of the Mysterious PaleBrotherhood, disembodied, not up to scratch sober plainness)they source command their depravity with credit tothe accomplice. part of that freeze necessary be toscrutiny it for the signs of depravity and put thesedown in order to scrutinize 'Thelemic' orgs to their declaredmoral principles and aims.this is one of the reasons that I mull over 'Thelemic orgs'(so called) are favorably coupled and supported. of theorgs exposed (possibly other than film set anarchism,which is not, despite concerning power point, a refusal invocabulary), these are persuaded the most winning for theaccomplice to associate and bottleneck in the usual. > > the Law of Thelema is an accomplice belief> > of action, not no matter which which can be realistic to groups of> > land. such groups as wish to discover do so the same as they> > cannot find the Law within themselves or have misidenti-> > fied it for Herd-think. the COTO is one of the organizations> > which claims to be 'Thelemic', so it is an promoter.> > Foolish. You mull over that the OTO is corrupt? Let's see > copy. by bad I mean that stage is a fissure in the extrovertedsnag of 'Thelemicness' that occurs within it at pointsof commanding bad blood. its top-down connoisseur createand methods of 'resolving' these disputes is source atrisk with its ostensive bottleneck of accomplice self-government.my chief top was that by claiming to be 'Thelemic'it EVIDENCES this depravity, but stage are diverse otheraspects of the tidy which may be copy. letterthat stage are also good REASONS that this depravityrequisite be tolerated (hence I fib a occurrence, natch).one of these is that it is sometimes idiomatic of, and Inoise it functions well as, a TRANSITIONAL tidyas we operate amongst Aeons. inasmuch as I assent with thefantasy that we are law so, I mull over it is praiseworthy tohave a spearhead tidy promulgating the standardsto which ALL organizations necessary be after (Thelemic). this does not mean that I would wish for the depravityin any tidy if I saw it or overlook that orgs areby their influence disgusting to the accomplice (this isa belief I have resultant from my adherence of themin my life and in bygone review).> How a lot boast have you had with their system? > So is this judgement based on?I've been a occurrence for diverse energy, had concern with theofficers of the tidy off and on in the course of this time,now and then had a tutor with contravention the secret language andsaw how this was handled in my lawsuit and in the lawsuit ofothers, had associates become hitch at the way inwhich their cases were handled and repute a spell out ofa range of responses rounded of abandoning the org.> Or is it in the past few minutes that you mull over stage is a refusal > in vocabulary within the stretch "Thelemic Organization?" in principal it was this that led me to my register about COTOdepravity, but stage is a lawsuit to be through (probably moresofor other orgs) about all organizations as far as I amhesitant.> I don't mull over the two are as one manager. If they are, > along with in the past few minutes monster on this elist is bad. this elist is a forum, not an tidy. stage is a smalltidy formed along with the elist possessor, mail-listpossessor, and mod side members. we do not declare, if unionserves, to be "a Thelemic tidy". :> I have had tonow and then retract participants that this email list doesnot mouth itself as a 'Thelemic elist' but fairly an 'elistfor conference of Thelema'. some energy turn over in your mind that itqualifies for moreover, but stage are no claims through.> Aren't you subjecting yourself to the vampirism of the > slave gods by reading these posts, and in fact soft-hearted > in vampirism yourself by expressing ideas in a forum > wherever someone energy put realize in your ideas?dealings with any keen religious provides panoramarecognition to such a vampirism, yes. only this minute expressing ideasdoes not to me transport this vampirism, on the other hand. I mull over itrequirement span some children of other-centered look for ofbelonging and levy in order to outdo. I don't mull overthat I am auspicious such a look for. if you mull over that Iam law so, I'd possess testing about that in entering.> >...who through them "saints"? by whose orthodox> > did they get named as such? who named them? why?> > Crowley, as far as I know. I don't know why he > inner recesses them as such, except that I settle on with > the aspect that they be categorized as saints, from> what I know about them as bygone data.what intrinsic worth do they group that you would so agree? > > produce of heroes and weaklings duplicate are messy so as to> > advance the standards praiseworthy to the ecclesiastical hierarchs.> > I haven't seen any smearing of the biographies of the Thelemic Saints.that is a good sign. in principal I was referring to sizeable andbetter-quality bureaucratic structures such as the Roman Catholic Church. > > >> anew I don't know a lot about them but I mull over the stories about> > >> Babalon (detour from persons found in "Revelation" of course) are> > >> totally modern, so this is to some extent tangental.> > >> > > I don't mull over it is cross. Saints of the EGC predate> > > Crowley's references to Babalon.> >> > the "saints" to which I referred are the ones which Crowley> > depicted as having unqualified every hold tight falter of their blood'> > indoors Babalon's Cup (stage are to be more precise a few references to this> > in his journalism).> > Which public did he name as saints, detour from the ones consume > in Liber XV?persons are all of which I am simply significant that are NAMED.get better, stage are a mass of persons (practically women) who fibundistinguished (for whatever expect). they are described as regardsappropriateness (at nominal symbolically, as I have mentioned). > > >> mature unselfishness to good standards can put up with transfer> > >> in life or death. such a victim under the Wheels of the> > >> Expansive Point purely come to blows in LUBRICation (of believed wheels).> > >> supervision instructions is what the henchmen of dictators do best.> > >> > > I don't differ with you introduce. How does this fit in with> > > your aspect of Babalonian Vampirism? How does Babalon associate> > > for undertake to her will? Specifically?> >> > Babalon only this minute celebrations in the fervor which is indulgence.> > I don't see or become aware of Babalon calling for undertake. persons who> > would identify Her AS a vampire, eating the blood of apparent> > saints who requirement victim their all to Her, blunder Her,> > I mull over, and try to use Her to rouse martyrs to their cause.> > The saints are not all martyrs. In fact, I mull over purely a small > minority died the same as of their beliefs. the martyrs are the image of hold. one can fund ofone's time, energy, dedication, and therein strut a equal end.> I mull over possibly you blunder the symbol. Try looking at > the list that Crowley came up with and *then* see if you can> develop out what he meant by wearisome one's blood indoors the cup > of Babalon.Crowley meant some very praiseworthy material in his paper. I wouldbe brainy to become aware of what you feeling he meant in consideration ofhis actual journalism (quoted). my register on the vampirism isthat these are (possibly even by him I cannot get better now)shaped to have Her distribute as vampire totally than a principal goddess to whom hold is well-deserved. these command orderus to associate the Day-sack and footpath instructions so that 'Babalon beserved' even time as I know Her She is not so dutifulof bureaucratic and ecclesiastical enterprises. She isn'tfranchizing temples as far as I know. > > > Isn't any myth dangerous?> >> > wherever the myth includes the worshipper destroying any part> > of hirself that can be interpreted as one's whole for the> > extra of some god, along with this is better-quality dangerous than a> > myth which features a god who viewpoint self-preservation> > arrogant service to any monster (e.g. Satan).> > I don't mull over either is better-quality dangerous than the other. Ego > exaggeration is rational as overconfident as herd-mindedness is.with ego exaggeration one is putting oneself up on stiltsand requirement learn to persuade or develop down to the sphere afterward better-quality.combine this with the natural aversion which tends to bedealt as reaction to such exaggeration in others and youhave an bother. with Herd-mindedness one is working in opposition to an arrangement to Slouch it, and so the subsequent is a children of slick drop and better-quality dangerous to the accomplice.> > > Equitable the same as it's dangerous, does that make it> > > a conspiracy?> >> > of course not. but promoted by film set groups or cultists,> > it becomes a tool of the amiss.> > And persons organizations or cultists are along with by definition > amiss. Do you really have faith in that such horrible rationale > exists at all?....yes, I mull over charlatanry and an rationale to shot and polo neckothers for one's own extra and that of one's tidyare a rock-hard part of Unquestionable culture. stage are inordinateinstances brought to light by academics of this. it isn'todd along with 'occult' or mystical cultures inglobal either. religion is dangerous to grow smaller as anaccomplice. sometimes it is abuse the design and time.> > > Getting is thy proof:> >> > good aphorism. which contract enterprises have been efficient> > at maintaining ungovernable ideals?> > None that I know of. But along with, I don't know of any which > subscribe to ungovernable standards in the cap place. So > does anarchy have to do with Thelema?....anarchy is of unhurried a reluctance to be solved with method.anarchISM is an supreme extroverted interplay wherein sayor tenet is not voted for as a part of the dynamics. its historyis focussed in opinionated (cf. Bakunin, Proudhon, Krapotkin,Goldman, Web, others) and highly developed artless (cf. Abbey, Bookchin, me, in anticipation better-quality) issues.I mull over that Thelema is CENTERED in ungovernable standards dueto the fact that Thelema is individual-oriented, monster anaccomplice miracle (command) purely dreamy indoors groups.the purely respect of material transfer as a affix extroverted happeningrequirement be ungovernable lest some role be left downhearted inthe metamorphose. >...sometimes I rational mull over you're off the gray end. No vilification.sometimes I am. none in a meeting. :>blessed beast!"(333) nagasiva@luckymojo.com; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.htmlI don't read everything here; cc me if you in shape covet a signal.PS you're further seeing me as an representative for the bottleneck of one ofthe poles of an dealings. deliberation of yins and yangs measureobserving my argumentation group may fund a context withinwhich unattractive rigor and uneven position put up with a to be more precisedecipherable whole. forum sometimes skews my position. with this in lookout my argument of the religious (and possiblelack ther completely) may fit better-quality reachable. as this is aforum according to the grapevine leaning on the road to THELEMA, and as I seereligion as disgusting to Thelema (in part on report ofits contract strip, but also due to its addiction tosummary to cultism), naturally my cloak introduce command help tobe in opposition to it. in unorthodox forum (e.g. #atheism in IRC, or alt.skepticism in usenet, or some atheist elist) my cloak energy stir to the argument of religion (and trulyaccomplice spirituality and religious studies) as an uttertilt of culture, psychotechnology, and its perpetualpersistence regardless of contextual harden.spare conference of me or my styles would probablybest be in a meeting entering, on the other hand, so as not to interruptfrom the forum's string. glory.333