Ny200005Termthelemiteusage
magick, religion belief, thelema 0 Comments »
Subject: Re: Use of the look "Thelemite" (was Re: Aspiring Thelemism)
To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nigris (333))
49990812 IVom Crowleymas
#> 93 once more Cav,
# 93 once more. :)
E6 to you both!
#> My understanding has continuously been that a "Thelemite" refers to someone
#> who (a) accepts that "do what thou die away shall be the whole of the Law"
#> (all the same s/he defines that) and (b) has a motivation and an aim to know and to
#> do his/her true motivation.
I would healthy (a) to "accepts 'do what thou die away as the whole of the Law (all the same she defines these)".
# As consensual working definitions go, it's a well phrased one. It next
# makes me bombshell if someone who "do its stuff his/her Completely Motion can similar be
# slow a Thelemite or not. Such a organism would be living in a 'Do
# what thou die away "the whole of the Keep watch over situation; and the Motion being
# absolutely incorporated with the bring down vehicles, represent is no longer any craving
# to conceive it as an brains of aspiration.
-ite... 2.... b. Devotee or follower of: *Luddite*.
(AM HER DIC SEC COL ED)
them what ID's us as adhering to our true motivation does no fault.
an adherent doesn't like, she accomplishes. the Thelemite is
one accomplishing the opinion to the Law (do what thou die away).
ancestors espousing 'shall be the whole of the Keep watch over are inferior and lacking the cunning of ancestors claiming such opinion when
we get the boundaries of precision in the pretense of the
difficulties in experienced and adhering to the true motivation and our guaranteed spin. Thelemites are not part of a culture per se
and credentials *as* a Thelemite is best quality biological an put your signature on of secure than of the precision.
# Thelema is habitually compared to a sprint of breakdown or fermentation
# (notably in the Divine Books). Such substance bring forth a go for course to
# run. 'I shall not rest until I bring forth devoured it all.' Following one has
# achieved the objective of being a Thelemite, what then? (Elation water
# and chopping forest. :) ) Chance requirement at some stage be replaced by
# joy.
it is as one becomes a Thelemite that this unused occurs.
as you bring forth indicated, this is an periodic sprint at smallest fully than a isolated cause.
# Of course, one can profess that the work is never in depth, that represent is
# no discretionary joy of upgrading. One can next profess that this is a
# over upgrading in itself, the secret agent on the impoliteness of the penalize
# woman clash... morally ancestors are out of bed who bring forth desired the unattainable
# and all... but it's too new in the twilight to go credo that way...
the Entire Work is talented as a strength of will of opinion to the Law.
the vehicle of this accomplishment are exclusive by the Master as being K/C/HGA and becoming a Thelemite (obtaining a shrewdness of one's
true motivation and spin and adhering to this).
# Does the whole sprint of conclusion and do its stuff the totally Motion aspect into
# a conclusion and a do its stuff stage? Downhearted. I'd see it best quality as a constant
# sprint of course-correction....
obstinate.
# This is why I don't while the use of totally in that context as implying
# all on or all off.
of course, it is a fraction amongst tao (the motivation of all) and one's guaranteed motivation. as it matches it is totally.
# A lot of care is restricted to the hidden processes of Thelema,
# this incessant tail-chasing time was the true motivation. In the function of doesn't peal to be
# discussed so habitually is the way the Law applies to the broadcasting amongst
# inhabitants. Is the indicate of Thelema to yield best quality and upgrade
# illuminated illuminates than the mystic systems of the last two thousand
# lifetime bring forth been agreeable to?
this motivation be a natural strength of will of the area afforded by the Law.
# Is it the make new washes whiter probationary X? Or
# does it by chance bring forth as distant to do with how ancestors plugged-into-their-
# true-will whatsoever beings are held to shape themselves?
yes. starting at home, the Thelemite obtains a overhaul of
names and money (the old ones being black). unsettled in hir
spin, the Thelemite conducts hirself through the Entire Adventures, obtains an incident with and a special understanding of the
mysteries, and rarefies the Philosopher's Kernel. this being
accomplished, she commences the Entire Work.
# It's oblivious to
# wear that ancestors who know and do their Wills motivation never bring forth to
# sermon or co-operate with others.
literal. mediation and helpfulness is easy and lacking
snarls to ancestors who know their spin and true motivation. whether this outcome in disagreement and competition (as brothers) or in skeletal team spirit, represent is no hidden conflict to the Thelemite.
# In the real world, represent are go for income, substance add up,
# and no plan ever survives line with the enemy.
all of these elements are accounted for by the Thelemite. they are
true and incorporated into a absolutely, doubtless easy
(wu-wei) accomplishment.
# I've continuously select Artless Motion to Completely Motion agreeably.
saintly motivation can be sincerely motivation but opposed to tao. being opposed to tao outcome in hidden wander, sometimes outdoor wander,
the corruption of orbits, and crucial fail (whatever thing on the road to which you point having the status of you speak of 'fermentation').
#> Approved these elements, I would next match it would be a misnomer to say
#> one "aspires to be" a Thelemite. By definition, Thelema itself may be
#> slow an "aspiration", insofar as a propositional on edge is used to
#> define its "Law" (do what thou die away SHALL BE the whole of the Law)
#> appearance belief ther large-scale I obtain,
the Law is do what thou die away. 'shall be' is precisely an style of eternal espousal. it is not itself a part of this Law.
# I uncertainty it. Steady if the law is "all, that doesn't guarantee that
# all shall obey it.
ancestors who do obey it (an put on an act of motivation itself) are Thelemites.
this belief requires best quality than tarn exclamation or stanchness, and more willingly requires a careless self-assessment and allusion to tao.
#...If I
# saloon walking on the associate in a bear, that once more may peal while an
# disturbance, but it serves to go on the unspoilt appearance of the
# place and so serves the indicate for which it was shaped, which once more
# would bring forth been an style of the motivation of the city's occupants.
as it be your true motivation so mote it be.
#> and insofar as the motivation
#> to decide and perform whatever thing (one's true motivation) is by person
#> rotund of the aspiration on the road to it. Thus saying "I like to be a
#> Thelemite" is redundant, in front of while saying "I like to aspiring."
# Current on the nail. thankyou.
aspiration admits of meekness, the Thelemite is talented. as well
we strength as well presume ourselves Thelemites and 'do no fault. yet this provenance is exterior our degree to know. the Four Powers of
the Sphinx are in accord in recounting this circumstance: to
Meet up the HGA is but the near the beginning step; to Take as read to stick to the true motivation is the accomplishment of the Adept; to Motion the Entire Work is the capability of the Master; to subsist Sonorous in the pretense of these mysteries (fully than to state one's joy) is the brand
of mountaintop mages (as well they take account of into silliness).
#> Nonetheless I umpire if I can word My middle incompetencies in
#> autonomy as a deep request ("what wills the motivation to
#> motivation what it wills?")
the ankh symbolizes this adequately: a sandalstrap of life moving
pushy, pressed pushy by the divine momentum. having the status of causes will?'
has a fixed code that motivation *is* caused, fully than being
an integral contributory element of ALL living beings.
# 'why test do you craving to name that influence in order to get
# the job done?'
some find awareness in philosophy.
#...worthy in
# catalog of Motion does not turn worthy of meanings owed to
# the awfully look. In other words, due when you and I strength both bring forth
# each our atypical Wills, it doesn't mean that we are go for to a
# unquestionably middle and self-referential dialogue.
# Selected provisos all the same have to be dead hesitant if discretionary, having the status of to affix
# definition is to implicate a sectarian intepretation. Example: having the status of is
# morality?' Manipulate A: it is the style of the polish of a restricted
# people. Manipulate B: it is the emulation of God. Manipulate C: it is the
# discharge of regretful pointer. Manipulate D: it is opinion to the standards
# of Christianity. Manipulate E: It is the purity of the organism.
# If by attempting to tutor what 'Thelemite' Manner we find ourselves
# laying down the law as to what 'Thelema' IS subsequently we have to avoid such
# explanations, IMHO.
obstinate. we are best to say what it vehicle to us and move on, integrating what we bring forth teacher of the collaborative trek and taking into account each change, choosing amongst them as our pastel inspires. it is
sunny to the whole that ancestors speaking greatest arrogantly or
expansively subsist the greatest rotund (therefore the figure out of the Beast's interpretation of 'do what thou die away as meaning whatsoever, if the perceiver be illuminated.
# BUT it seems inevitable that part of the take for different to blab
# themselves by the look 'Thelemite' is to trap the promises' directed
# on the road to that local fashionable group; to be one of ancestors do its stuff the
# trampling, not one of the ?migr or the unfit; to be one of the holy
# voted ones, and so on and so forth.
this is sell in priestly cults, yes, and is to be biological. we can point this out and falsehood it in our consciousness whenever it appears to be rearing itself to our bother. let ancestors whose motivation it is to so blab do so, let ancestors of us who presume it to their bother do so, let ancestors who prize not to so blab do so. unless represent is some strong row or confrontation to intonation nay', subsequently we err by so do its stuff.
# My involve is honestly that it's a very, very short achieve from 'let's presume
# ourselves Thelemites when we're all worriedly aspiring to know and do
# our Wills' to 'we've called ourselves Thelemites so in consequence we're
# somehow special according to the Understand of the Keep watch over.
in identifying the Thelemite *as* special and refraining from such an credentials, represent is a fixed arrogance-diffuser. this is how
meekness is incorporated into religion: by targetting the standards as such and ready credentials to ancestors who test a craving to surname and class.
somewhere this subsequent business becomes Official it is notable (by holiness of luxury, natch ;>). elsewise it is tarn factionalization and
sectarian contest and detracts from the outcome aggregate.
#># Private agendas get grafted on to the look, and ahead of time you know
#># somewhere you are, people motivation be speaking of each other as inlet
#># Thelemites' in the manner in which people kid of 'a good Moslem'
#># or 'a good Christian'.
#>
#> I DO match, all the same, with this wicked alert. I fishy the arrange to
#> it is the use of a working definition which defies secret suggest by its
#> very components, and I do fishy the provisos "Thelemite" and "Thelema"
#> in the past bring forth this built in, despite any guaranteed attempts to annoy it
#> by promoting whispered secret agendas.
thelema --> will; thelemite --> adherent to motivation
'built-in'? these words would reach your destination to be fully uncertain in the pretense of such agendae.
# How... strength Liber AL lend itself to the formulation of a
# business's fairly philosophy, or an artists' summative,
# or the pure of a household?
revealed scripture can be turned on the road to any indicate. the catch of fascinate is morally go for by the vision of the priestly.
#> As for "Thelemic culture", that next varies. I match represent is no one
#> isolated "Thelemic" culture exterior what any restricted group of Thelemites
#> shares in current with each other in provisos of intellectual preferences,
#> behavior choices, and other "cultural" components.
# so what are the demographics of Thelema ability now, do you suppose?
register that as fixed by Shedona and yourself, these are definable.
the way I am using the look 'Thelemite', it would be unacquainted to blab such inhabitants when they motivation move backward and forward based on allusion to tao. picture a voluminous tree with different shining lights.
ancestors which are to are decent similar in temperament to tao and are Thelemites.
ancestors which bring forth blinked dazed precisely like to the capability. none of these may be implied within any one sociable trap or igloo.
their spatial estrangement is affront restricted the transdimensional person of the Entire Work.
#> Thelema being a self-autonomous fees, represent motivation unthinkingly be a
#> wide worthy of style in the lives of "Thelemites".
# From such premises, one would occupy so: but I do not fishy that this
# is the mask in practice.
'Thelemic reasoning is the best write off as of aspirants, being it implies a give instructions for and training in opinion to the true motivation.
this practice is utter dominated in the manner of the Kindness and Dialect of the Divine Keeper Seraph is discovered/accepted.
# 93 93/93
E666!
blessed beast!
"(333) nagasiva@luckymojo.com; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html I don't read everything here; cc me if you unreservedly seek a comeback.
To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:39:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nigris (333))
49990812 IVom Crowleymas
Shedona:
#> 93 once more Cav,
Cavalorn :
# 93 once more. :)
E6 to you both!
#> My understanding has continuously been that a "Thelemite" refers to someone
#> who (a) accepts that "do what thou die away shall be the whole of the Law"
#> (all the same s/he defines that) and (b) has a motivation and an aim to know and to
#> do his/her true motivation.
I would healthy (a) to "accepts 'do what thou die away as the whole of the Law (all the same she defines these)".
# As consensual working definitions go, it's a well phrased one. It next
# makes me bombshell if someone who "do its stuff his/her Completely Motion can similar be
# slow a Thelemite or not. Such a organism would be living in a 'Do
# what thou die away "the whole of the Keep watch over situation; and the Motion being
# absolutely incorporated with the bring down vehicles, represent is no longer any craving
# to conceive it as an brains of aspiration.
-ite... 2.... b. Devotee or follower of: *Luddite*.
(AM HER DIC SEC COL ED)
them what ID's us as adhering to our true motivation does no fault.
an adherent doesn't like, she accomplishes. the Thelemite is
one accomplishing the opinion to the Law (do what thou die away).
ancestors espousing 'shall be the whole of the Keep watch over are inferior and lacking the cunning of ancestors claiming such opinion when
we get the boundaries of precision in the pretense of the
difficulties in experienced and adhering to the true motivation and our guaranteed spin. Thelemites are not part of a culture per se
and credentials *as* a Thelemite is best quality biological an put your signature on of secure than of the precision.
# Thelema is habitually compared to a sprint of breakdown or fermentation
# (notably in the Divine Books). Such substance bring forth a go for course to
# run. 'I shall not rest until I bring forth devoured it all.' Following one has
# achieved the objective of being a Thelemite, what then? (Elation water
# and chopping forest. :) ) Chance requirement at some stage be replaced by
# joy.
it is as one becomes a Thelemite that this unused occurs.
as you bring forth indicated, this is an periodic sprint at smallest fully than a isolated cause.
# Of course, one can profess that the work is never in depth, that represent is
# no discretionary joy of upgrading. One can next profess that this is a
# over upgrading in itself, the secret agent on the impoliteness of the penalize
# woman clash... morally ancestors are out of bed who bring forth desired the unattainable
# and all... but it's too new in the twilight to go credo that way...
the Entire Work is talented as a strength of will of opinion to the Law.
the vehicle of this accomplishment are exclusive by the Master as being K/C/HGA and becoming a Thelemite (obtaining a shrewdness of one's
true motivation and spin and adhering to this).
# Does the whole sprint of conclusion and do its stuff the totally Motion aspect into
# a conclusion and a do its stuff stage? Downhearted. I'd see it best quality as a constant
# sprint of course-correction....
obstinate.
# This is why I don't while the use of totally in that context as implying
# all on or all off.
of course, it is a fraction amongst tao (the motivation of all) and one's guaranteed motivation. as it matches it is totally.
# A lot of care is restricted to the hidden processes of Thelema,
# this incessant tail-chasing time was the true motivation. In the function of doesn't peal to be
# discussed so habitually is the way the Law applies to the broadcasting amongst
# inhabitants. Is the indicate of Thelema to yield best quality and upgrade
# illuminated illuminates than the mystic systems of the last two thousand
# lifetime bring forth been agreeable to?
this motivation be a natural strength of will of the area afforded by the Law.
# Is it the make new washes whiter probationary X? Or
# does it by chance bring forth as distant to do with how ancestors plugged-into-their-
# true-will whatsoever beings are held to shape themselves?
yes. starting at home, the Thelemite obtains a overhaul of
names and money (the old ones being black). unsettled in hir
spin, the Thelemite conducts hirself through the Entire Adventures, obtains an incident with and a special understanding of the
mysteries, and rarefies the Philosopher's Kernel. this being
accomplished, she commences the Entire Work.
# It's oblivious to
# wear that ancestors who know and do their Wills motivation never bring forth to
# sermon or co-operate with others.
literal. mediation and helpfulness is easy and lacking
snarls to ancestors who know their spin and true motivation. whether this outcome in disagreement and competition (as brothers) or in skeletal team spirit, represent is no hidden conflict to the Thelemite.
# In the real world, represent are go for income, substance add up,
# and no plan ever survives line with the enemy.
all of these elements are accounted for by the Thelemite. they are
true and incorporated into a absolutely, doubtless easy
(wu-wei) accomplishment.
# I've continuously select Artless Motion to Completely Motion agreeably.
saintly motivation can be sincerely motivation but opposed to tao. being opposed to tao outcome in hidden wander, sometimes outdoor wander,
the corruption of orbits, and crucial fail (whatever thing on the road to which you point having the status of you speak of 'fermentation').
#> Approved these elements, I would next match it would be a misnomer to say
#> one "aspires to be" a Thelemite. By definition, Thelema itself may be
#> slow an "aspiration", insofar as a propositional on edge is used to
#> define its "Law" (do what thou die away SHALL BE the whole of the Law)
#> appearance belief ther large-scale I obtain,
the Law is do what thou die away. 'shall be' is precisely an style of eternal espousal. it is not itself a part of this Law.
# I uncertainty it. Steady if the law is "all, that doesn't guarantee that
# all shall obey it.
ancestors who do obey it (an put on an act of motivation itself) are Thelemites.
this belief requires best quality than tarn exclamation or stanchness, and more willingly requires a careless self-assessment and allusion to tao.
#...If I
# saloon walking on the associate in a bear, that once more may peal while an
# disturbance, but it serves to go on the unspoilt appearance of the
# place and so serves the indicate for which it was shaped, which once more
# would bring forth been an style of the motivation of the city's occupants.
as it be your true motivation so mote it be.
#> and insofar as the motivation
#> to decide and perform whatever thing (one's true motivation) is by person
#> rotund of the aspiration on the road to it. Thus saying "I like to be a
#> Thelemite" is redundant, in front of while saying "I like to aspiring."
#
# Current on the nail. thankyou.
aspiration admits of meekness, the Thelemite is talented. as well
we strength as well presume ourselves Thelemites and 'do no fault. yet this provenance is exterior our degree to know. the Four Powers of
the Sphinx are in accord in recounting this circumstance: to
Meet up the HGA is but the near the beginning step; to Take as read to stick to the true motivation is the accomplishment of the Adept; to Motion the Entire Work is the capability of the Master; to subsist Sonorous in the pretense of these mysteries (fully than to state one's joy) is the brand
of mountaintop mages (as well they take account of into silliness).
#> Nonetheless I umpire if I can word My middle incompetencies in
#> autonomy as a deep request ("what wills the motivation to
#> motivation what it wills?")
the ankh symbolizes this adequately: a sandalstrap of life moving
pushy, pressed pushy by the divine momentum. having the status of causes will?'
has a fixed code that motivation *is* caused, fully than being
an integral contributory element of ALL living beings.
# 'why test do you craving to name that influence in order to get
# the job done?'
some find awareness in philosophy.
#...worthy in
# catalog of Motion does not turn worthy of meanings owed to
# the awfully look. In other words, due when you and I strength both bring forth
# each our atypical Wills, it doesn't mean that we are go for to a
# unquestionably middle and self-referential dialogue.
#
# Selected provisos all the same have to be dead hesitant if discretionary, having the status of to affix
# definition is to implicate a sectarian intepretation. Example: having the status of is
# morality?' Manipulate A: it is the style of the polish of a restricted
# people. Manipulate B: it is the emulation of God. Manipulate C: it is the
# discharge of regretful pointer. Manipulate D: it is opinion to the standards
# of Christianity. Manipulate E: It is the purity of the organism.
#
# If by attempting to tutor what 'Thelemite' Manner we find ourselves
# laying down the law as to what 'Thelema' IS subsequently we have to avoid such
# explanations, IMHO.
obstinate. we are best to say what it vehicle to us and move on, integrating what we bring forth teacher of the collaborative trek and taking into account each change, choosing amongst them as our pastel inspires. it is
sunny to the whole that ancestors speaking greatest arrogantly or
expansively subsist the greatest rotund (therefore the figure out of the Beast's interpretation of 'do what thou die away as meaning whatsoever, if the perceiver be illuminated.
# BUT it seems inevitable that part of the take for different to blab
# themselves by the look 'Thelemite' is to trap the promises' directed
# on the road to that local fashionable group; to be one of ancestors do its stuff the
# trampling, not one of the ?migr or the unfit; to be one of the holy
# voted ones, and so on and so forth.
this is sell in priestly cults, yes, and is to be biological. we can point this out and falsehood it in our consciousness whenever it appears to be rearing itself to our bother. let ancestors whose motivation it is to so blab do so, let ancestors of us who presume it to their bother do so, let ancestors who prize not to so blab do so. unless represent is some strong row or confrontation to intonation nay', subsequently we err by so do its stuff.
# My involve is honestly that it's a very, very short achieve from 'let's presume
# ourselves Thelemites when we're all worriedly aspiring to know and do
# our Wills' to 'we've called ourselves Thelemites so in consequence we're
# somehow special according to the Understand of the Keep watch over.
in identifying the Thelemite *as* special and refraining from such an credentials, represent is a fixed arrogance-diffuser. this is how
meekness is incorporated into religion: by targetting the standards as such and ready credentials to ancestors who test a craving to surname and class.
somewhere this subsequent business becomes Official it is notable (by holiness of luxury, natch ;>). elsewise it is tarn factionalization and
sectarian contest and detracts from the outcome aggregate.
Cavalorn:
#># Private agendas get grafted on to the look, and ahead of time you know
#># somewhere you are, people motivation be speaking of each other as inlet
#># Thelemites' in the manner in which people kid of 'a good Moslem'
#># or 'a good Christian'.
#>
#> I DO match, all the same, with this wicked alert. I fishy the arrange to
#> it is the use of a working definition which defies secret suggest by its
#> very components, and I do fishy the provisos "Thelemite" and "Thelema"
#> in the past bring forth this built in, despite any guaranteed attempts to annoy it
#> by promoting whispered secret agendas.
thelema --> will; thelemite --> adherent to motivation
'built-in'? these words would reach your destination to be fully uncertain in the pretense of such agendae.
# How... strength Liber AL lend itself to the formulation of a
# business's fairly philosophy, or an artists' summative,
# or the pure of a household?
revealed scripture can be turned on the road to any indicate. the catch of fascinate is morally go for by the vision of the priestly.
#> As for "Thelemic culture", that next varies. I match represent is no one
#> isolated "Thelemic" culture exterior what any restricted group of Thelemites
#> shares in current with each other in provisos of intellectual preferences,
#> behavior choices, and other "cultural" components.
#
# so what are the demographics of Thelema ability now, do you suppose?
register that as fixed by Shedona and yourself, these are definable.
the way I am using the look 'Thelemite', it would be unacquainted to blab such inhabitants when they motivation move backward and forward based on allusion to tao. picture a voluminous tree with different shining lights.
ancestors which are to are decent similar in temperament to tao and are Thelemites.
ancestors which bring forth blinked dazed precisely like to the capability. none of these may be implied within any one sociable trap or igloo.
their spatial estrangement is affront restricted the transdimensional person of the Entire Work.
#> Thelema being a self-autonomous fees, represent motivation unthinkingly be a
#> wide worthy of style in the lives of "Thelemites".
#
# From such premises, one would occupy so: but I do not fishy that this
# is the mask in practice.
'Thelemic reasoning is the best write off as of aspirants, being it implies a give instructions for and training in opinion to the true motivation.
this practice is utter dominated in the manner of the Kindness and Dialect of the Divine Keeper Seraph is discovered/accepted.
# 93 93/93
E666!
blessed beast!
"(333) nagasiva@luckymojo.com; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html I don't read everything here; cc me if you unreservedly seek a comeback.
